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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:13 pm 
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so theres several lvl 35 weapons that kinda suck compared to the other options that are available because the other options hit substantially harder than they do; the goal here is to make the relatively bad weapons that I'm writing about be worth using, for level 40 characters, compared to the good weapons that I'm writing about
I am only writing about level 40 characters, and I'm also considering DC=26 chance on hit effects to be meaningless in my below writings, and I'm also considering that the current weapon design does not consider 2d8 divine damage to be better(or worse) than 2d8 negative energy damage(looking at you, lich's wrath)... I'm not writing about that particular part of the current weapon design that concerns comparing non-physical damage flares of the exact same amounts; thats for another thread for another day
to be more specific:

greataxes:
soul render and tiamat greataxe both deal substantially less damage than abyssal fiend greataxe does, all 3 of which are lvl 35 weapons; the former two should have their damage brought up to the level of abyssal fiend greataxe, though tiamat greataxe could perhaps afford to be buffed very slightly less due to its bonus feat: spell focus(necromancy) and evil only, whether or not anyone can take advantage of that bonus feat

greatswords:
blade of the lumi and bahamut sword of righteousness are quite inferior to githyanki silver sword, though thats okay because githyanki silver sword is 5 levels higher than the other 2 weapons
but mighty talon sucks compared to githyanki silver sword; being +8 does make up for lacking extra melee damage: bludgeoning, but mighty talon's total damage flares add up to only 29.5 average non-crit damage, while githyanki silver sword's total damage flares add up to a much more impressive 38.5 average non-crit damage, although githyanki silver sword completely lacks massive crits
furthermore, mighty talon has 10% piercing vulnerability and doesn't pair well with flame weapon, deafening clang, or non-SL darkfires(SL could use a buff anyway)
so, I'd propose that mighty talon gain an extra 1 fire/cold/lightning/acid/sonic damage per hit, notably making it have only 4 less average non-crit non-physical damage than githyanki silver sword

halberds:
dyloxis' impaler is much worse than the purifier, although both weapons have the same level requirement; not only does dyloxis' impaler deal 6.5 less average damage than the purifier does(vs. non-evil), but dyloxis' impaler has no special properties, while the purifier does(overlapping dmg vs. evil and gdispel 2x/day)
so, dyloxis' impaler had ought to be given 1d12 of some sort of damage type, as well as some miscellaneous bonus, such as a small skill bonus, a bonus feat, a use of a spell per day, on hit: vorpal DC=26, or even 5/- resistance vs. a physical damage type

spears:
stalker spear and voidmind lance deal substantially less damage than icicle does; the former 2 spears should have their damage brought up to be nearly as high as that of icicle, and I say nearly because stalker spear has bonus feat: alertness on it, and because voidmind lance has vamp regen +2 on it
on a somewhat unrelated note, abyssal fiend greataxe hits a bit harder than icicle does, moreso vs. good, but thats okay because martial weapons had ought to be better than simple weapons

bastid swords and dwarven waraxes:
both of the best available bastid swords are worse than both of the best available longswords, even when not considering the feat consumed by exotic weapon proficiency
the best dwarven waraxe available is roughly as strong as the best available battleaxe when you don't account for exotic weapon proficiency or the bonus wizard/sorceror spell slots on the battleaxe; the comparison to make here is an extra 4 maximum massive criticals(gish axe) vs. 1 average physical damage per hit(celestial cleaver), and that, again, is when you do not at all consider exotic weapon proficiency or the bonus wizard/sorceror spell slots
if you intended to wield a medium 1h+shield, then why would you even take exotic weapon proficiency in the first place unless you're a shifter or you'd intended to use katanas?
EDIT: actually, instead of comparing bastid swords and dwarven waraxes to +7 weapons, I should be comparing them both to silver sword of gith without comparing them to gish axe

so, to give people who intend to use a medium 1h+shield a non-RP reason other than katanas to take exotic weapon proficiency, lumi smiter, blade of the abyss, and celestial cleaver should be buffed to deal a bit more damage
so I'd say:
blade of the abyss should get an extra 1d8 or 1d10 piercing dmg
lumi smiter should get an extra 1d8 or 1d10 piercing dmg and have its massive crits increased to 2d12
and celestial cleaver should get an extra 1d8 or 1d10 piercing dmg

also, bastid swords and dwarven waraxes don't have to be buffed to the level of double weapons because double weapons don't offer the option of swapping to a shield while keeping the advantage of your weapon focus feats and etc. while, bastid swords and dwarven waraxes do

so, soul render, tiamat greataxe, mighty talon, stalker spear, voidmind lance, blade of the abyss, lumi smiter, and celestial cleaver all got their damage buffed, then people actually would start using those weapons because they wouldn't be outclassed(or nearly outclassed in the case of stalker spear) by the other available weapon options

EDIT:
I'll also say that throwing weapons could use some love, specifically by offering +7 options for darts, shurikens, and throwing axes; even just +6 options would be nice
also, holy sword could stand to affect throwing weapons
and sickles and light crossbows lack a +7, and even a +6 option; they should at least have a +7 option from somewhere

and axe of zek'inyon's bonus feat: cleave is pretty much useless now that devcrit exists, given its being a non-finesseable weapon
I'd say its bonus feat should be changed to almost anything else, such as knockdown, combat casting, whirlwind attack, a regular spell focus other than conjuration if that'd make sense, or, questionably, alertness


Last edited by Garn on Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:41 am, edited 17 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:38 am 
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As someone who using all the weapons mentioned I agree..I have been making these types of toons as I have run out of other options at the moment .My current construction will use a dire mace..do you have any comments on those?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:40 am 
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and I joined the server just before the last server wipe lol


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:25 pm 
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dire maces are 20/x3; they're just fine, although you may not like how death dire mace has slash resist instead of bludg resist, which doesn't make its immunity/resistance completely useless; it goes well with assassin's silk


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:38 pm 
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I agree with some weapon bumps especially Dwarven Waraxe and B@st@rd Sword for requiring a feat. I figured something simple like +1 to crit range


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:19 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:35 pm 
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Buuuut... it should be (one of) the best non-finesse 1H weapon. There are only 3, so... The only meta difference betwen DWaxe and Bsword are the crit range and multi and thats just to add flavor in your choice. Meta says they should really be the same slash, crit range, and multi. Maybe give DWaxe +1 range and Bsword +1 multi ? That would make them the same. Or go the reverse and give DWaxe the crit multi and the Bsword the range. Would need to run basic DPS numbers, but I think katana will still beat both.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:38 pm 
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Dwarven waraxe and bas sword are way underpowered given that they require a feat - they deserve something nice. +1 to crit range would make them only marginally better than scimitar, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:08 pm 
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both would still be too much
all dwarven waraxe and bastid sword need are an extra 1d8 damage or so and they'll be a fine alternative to longswords and battleaxes
also, edited OP to include sickles


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:08 am 
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I believe that sickles are nerfed because they are available to druid/shifter without any prof feats. There could be a balance issue for forms where the weapon applies instead of natural weapons.

Throwing weapons are kept as +5 for balance reasons vs penetration and DR things.

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