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 Post subject: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Pk Bait
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pure rogue bonuses:

21 1 regen 1 saves 20 movement speed
25 1 regen 1 saves +1 dex
28 flashbang 1/day (sunburst)
30 1 regen 1 saves, fearless, once a day becomes fear immune (for 1 round/2 levels) +1 dex
35 craft gas bomb (dc 40 fort and will + int mod (fort and will) +1 dex
40 1 regen 1 saves, loot bag +10 hide/ms/spot/search/disable trap/set trap/listen. +1 dex

total: 4 regen, 4 saves, 4 dex, 10 to skills. Tokens: flash bang, gas bomb. fearless. Special: loot bag (undroppable container with 100% weight reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:07 pm 
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And it still wouldn't make a difference, because you still have no discipline, no AB, have to cornersneak to do damage, and low HP.

Also, you're forgetting that containers have shit-all carry space, so all that item would do is let you carry, like, 3 full plates or something.

I don't like the idea of pure rogue bonuses, because it doesn't actually make the flawed idea (pure rogue) viable unless it gets something horribly powerful.

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Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Your just upset because NC doesnt have rogues.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:19 am 
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I actually like the idea. You have to understand Mining. He sees all in crunching numbers. Only statistics and powerbuilds count :).
That pure rogue couldn't certainly stand up to any über-build, but it would bring something new and fun.

Now, the most important part, who can do the scripting...

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:34 am 
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I have a pure dex based rogue with 74 discipline although his will and fort saves are laughable, can't win them all , and can self buff his ab to 63 for about 10 rds. It's not that they can't have good ab and discipline its just harder to get it. Will and Fort saves are the biggest issue with them.

I think indoor HIPS would be pretty cool at level 40. Definitely be worthwhile for pvp then.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:09 am 
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Alkapwn wrote:
I have a pure dex based rogue with 74 discipline although his will and fort saves are laughable, can't win them all , and can self buff his ab to 63 for about 10 rds. It's not that they can't have good ab and discipline its just harder to get it. Will and Fort saves are the biggest issue with them.

I think indoor HIPS would be pretty cool at level 40. Definitely be worthwhile for pvp then.


Thats true.


Also, Nyeleni, you need to recall that if literally its only use is to make something horribly useless semi-useful, then it might as well not be in the game.

Its also dev priorities - Entangle, Vine Mine, bugfixes, all should rank higher than pure class bonuses for a gimmick.

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Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:48 am 
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Hips indoors is actually a good idea… another one could be hips at night.
Its not supposed to be horribly powerful (unless you give it a horrible name), rogue is supposed to run from a fight. If you want an über-build go build one :)

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Last edited by Ogami on Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:44 am 
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Location: Hyk's House, DON'T TELL HIS WIFE!
Increase their abilities to pickpocket, lockpick, search, and trap beyond that of any other build through tokens and special abilities. (Gear some areas to require a pure rogue to even find or get into)

Give them an opening ability akin to Assassin, except that instead of stunning or killing someone outright it debilitates their fighting capabilities or silences them. Summat.

Give them a token to throw dust into someone's eyes and cause them to go flatfooted in some sense to overcome the limitations of their AB and use their sneak attacks.

Give NC Rogues.

Remove all PvP rules.

Just some suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:31 am 
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mining wrote:
Alkapwn wrote:
I have a pure dex based rogue with 74 discipline although his will and fort saves are laughable, can't win them all , and can self buff his ab to 63 for about 10 rds. It's not that they can't have good ab and discipline its just harder to get it. Will and Fort saves are the biggest issue with them.

I think indoor HIPS would be pretty cool at level 40. Definitely be worthwhile for pvp then.


Thats true.


Also, Nyeleni, you need to recall that if literally its only use is to make something horribly useless semi-useful, then it might as well not be in the game.

Its also dev priorities - Entangle, Vine Mine, bugfixes, all should rank higher than pure class bonuses for a gimmick.


Mining, wasn't meant as a personal attack. Sry, if you were offended. I just enjoy more exploring something new than playing with numbers. But I certainly like to reap all the hard work you produce :). For that I'm grateful.
Still I don't agree in your assesment that the pure rogue is right now horribly useless. In a party it can as well be a huge asset. Yes a kobold shifter with a bit of rogue can do the same and more. But not everything has to be about the best. There is a lot of beauty in between too.

I don't think HIPS is really a solution as long as it is broken. But if ranger can have it outdoors, the rogue may as well - only indoors.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:09 am 
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mining wrote:
Its also dev priorities - Entangle, Vine Mine, bugfixes, all should rank higher than pure class bonuses for a gimmick.


Agreed, but no harm in dreaming of things beyond the immediate need.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Linux has yet to weigh in on this subject.

I posted a Pure Rogue suggestion a little over a year ago in the hope of getting Rogues some love.

It was rumored years ago, when Pure Class Fighters and Barbarians were first introduced, that Rogues would be getting Pure Class bonuses. I waited while Rangers, Assassins, and RDD, got their tweaks and when it looked like Rogues were being forgotten I brought the subject up.

I asked for alot less than Ogami is asking for here. Just a boost to AB, Will, and Fortitude saves.

Some of the players would be happy with just that Bag of Holding. Trap components get heavy.

As for HIPS? Under no circumstances should a Pure Rogue get HIPS. Weasel suggested that they get to move at normal speed while hidden, and have Keen Sense. I liked that idea.

Weigh in here Linux.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Making them viable corner sneaks would give pvp a whole new flavour, but Neversummer lacks a lot of windy areas to cornersneak around.

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Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:47 pm 
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He's waiting for the pure wm or pure monk bonus suggestions.

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NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:00 pm 
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THe flashbang idea is neat - blind for a short while so the rogue can run away or get in a few sneaks.

HIPS would be overkill - a bonus to corner sneaks would be more appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Pure Rogue
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Also, there's the fact that Pure Fighters had no reason to exist, same with barbarians, because they literally had no advantages whatsoever. Pure Rogue at least has some kind of scaling. (terrible as it is).

Also, I'm opposed to the very concept of pure class bonuses. I'm happy to abuse them, and they serve a role, but if a pure class bonus doesn't serve a role (i.e. PCBs for fighter/Barb = antiSD, PCB for paladin is... a bit more less-role-serving and more about making it viable and fun to play), it really should. i.e. what the pure rogue class bonuses make the rogue do? Counter HiPSers? Evidently not. Anti Dexxer? Maybe. That would be a good role for pure rogue. Anti-Armor Class would work too, but that punishes a lot of non-dexxers as well.

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Bargeld wrote:
Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.


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